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Judges Corner October - November  2005-  from Hunting Retriever magazine 

by Tim Gibson

I’ve got a nice, simple little Started level marking scenario for you in this issue.  It’s about a single mark and it’s the only scenario we’ll be covering.  You might wonder how I could have very much to say about a single Started mark.  Remember the story of the guy who noticed a squeaky board on his front porch step and decided to replace it, then this simple project escalated into tearing out the whole house foundation?  It’s sort of like that.  You’ll have to read on to see what I mean. First, I want to spend some time talking about the 2005 Judges Test.  Thanks to Bill and Cleo Watson’s hard work and excellent record keeping, as I am writing this article, I have the scores from the first 300 judges that took the test.  I’m going to share some interesting facts about their test scores with you, and although it’s probably going to get me in some sort of trouble, I’m going to discuss some of the most missed questions and the correct answers.  I shared what Bill and Cleo sent me with seminar co-developers Bill Rath and Paul Ramponi.  They had some comments about the results, one of which was, “How can we make everyone judge more consistently - perhaps by sharing information such as this”.  Paul noted that the numbers don’t lie.  I’ll explain what he meant. 

First - the good news.  One hundred forty judges made a score of 100% correct.  I know what some of you are thinking, “Where are these folks judging at”?  Hey, I’m just kidding.  The bad news is the remaining 160 judges missed a combined 309 questions.  The five most missed questions made up nearly half of all those missed.  I’m not sure if these questions are being misread or misunderstood, or if they are as someone speculated, a true representation of some of the judging problems we are seeing at our tests.  The five most missed questions and the subject matter they concerned were questions:  No. 1 - overall test safety; No. 9 - allowable water mark distances; No. 12 - when and how to inform handlers they have failed the test; No. 17 - who are the most difficult dogs to judge; and No. 22 - obedience and line manners issues.  You might want to print off the test and follow along as we take a look at each. 

Question No. 1 is a repeat from a previous test that was included because it was missed a lot before.  The answer is straight out of the Guidelines for Judges and Conducting Tests portion of our rulebook.  Safety should always be the judges main concern when setting up tests.  In our seminars, we talk about safety of everyone participating, including our retrievers.  I might add this should be the first concern of hunt test committees as they review and approve the tests. 

Question No. 9 was not meant to be a trick question.  It might say more about how well judges are reading the questions than anything else. If 125 yards is an allowable Finished water marked retrieve distance, then logic would dictate that a mark could be thrown at 75 or 100 yards as well.   

The frequency with which Question No. 12 was missed tells us some judges don’t understand when to ask a handler to pick up a dog.  Our rulebook clearly states that the judge should ask a handler to pick up their dog if that dog has, in the judge’s mind already failed and is creating bad habits or endangering itself.   

I would suspect most of those who missed Question No. 17 chose the Seasoned retriever as the most difficult dog to judge.  But it’s always the mediocre or average dog at any level is it not?  It’s the dog with several question marks on its score sheet.  It did not do any one thing to earn a failure, but it was weak in several areas of testing.  This is the dog that you have to decide either barely met the test standard, or did not which is one of the toughest decisions judges must learn to make. 

Finally, we have question 22 which asks is it the Seasoned, Finished, or both levels of dogs that must, “walk obediently to the line, sit obediently and exhibit an attentive attitude”.  Most that missed this question seemed to have chosen Finished rather than the correct answer, “Both of the above”, probably because we think of the Finished dog walking off lead.  But the Seasoned dog must show good manners coming to the line as well; it just does it on lead.  From what I’ve seen at a handful of tests, a few judges would likely had chosen “Neither of the above” had it been an option!  I say this after witnessing judges issuing what amounts to “do-overs” to Finished dogs coming to the line.  These judges tell the handler of a dog who breaks away to run into the test to go back to the holding blind and come back up again.  A proper test briefing would have led the handler to understand that their dog most likely would earn a markdown or a failing grade for this behavior. So after this issue of the magazine reaches you, and knowing that most of you turn first to the Judge’s Corner before reading any other part it, I expect that Bill and Cleo’s next report will say that nobody missed questions 1, 9, 12, 17, and 22! If you did and need more help to understand the correct answers please feel free to contact me, or better yet, ask your friendly field rep for assistance.   

I just happened to be speaking myself with a couple of field reps recently about problems we are seeing at hunt tests.  The Started test scenario I received a short while back, which I mentioned earlier and will share with you forthwith, prompted the conversation.  The discussion did not involve flawed test mechanics, inadequate grounds, poor birds, or a poor judging decision. We were talking about “understanding and expectation”. As we spoke, one of the reps said something that stuck with me, which I’ll share with you. He noted that a lot of the problems we see at our advanced testing levels begin at Started.  The scenario below will help explain what he meant by that and what our conversation was really all about.   


Scenario: 

The judges at the Started land series explained the test mechanics and reminded the handlers that they could utilize the re-cast option on either or both marked retrieves.  They also correctly advised that if a bird boy were required to assist the dog, the test would be failed.  The Started dog was released for the first mark and began to hunt way short of the area of the fall.  The handler decided to handle the dog.  The dog would sit on the whistle, but would not take a cast.  After two or three failed attempts to cast the dog, the handler called the dog in for a re-cast.  The dog went back out and stumbled around the hunt area until it found the bird.  

Question: 

You are the judge at this test.  How would you rate the dog’s performance on this bird?  Pass, Fail, or a Markdown? 

Answer: 

For purposes of our discussion, let’s assume the cover, terrain and distance to the mark was appropriate for a Started test.  We’re going to also say that the dog reacted to the attention-getting device and the bird was easily seen when thrown.  Some of you will have determined that the dog’s performance was acceptable, because it picked up the bird on the re-cast, without aid from the bird boy, hence, no markdown for this dog. Some will say wait just a minute, it stumbled on the bird on the re-cast, hunting here and there around the field before finding the bird, so I’m still giving the dog a markdown for lack of marking.  A few might say the dog should fail because once a handler begins to handle, the dog is being judged on its control and this handler could not get the dog to the bird. Okay, what if I change the scenario slightly and say although it initially hunted short, the dog handled cleanly and picked up the bird with a couple of nice whistles and casts when the handler began to handle on the first attempt? And, stay with me here, how about this:  the dog hunted short on the first attempt, would not handle, but smashed the bird on the re-cast, going directly to the AOF, establishing a hunt and picking the bird up promptly.  What about that? 

Earlier I mentioned the terms, “understanding” and “expectation”.  Judges must have a proper understanding of our rules and guidelines and what is expected of a retriever to earn a passing grade.  Thankfully, most do.  Further, our rulebook states “Judges will provide an explanation of each hunting test objective to the Handlers” (rulebook, Judges, page 33).  When judges fail do that, many handlers do not understand either what the judges are testing or what is expected from them and their retriever.  Now answer this:  When was the last time you heard Started judges clearly explain the marking test objectives? Are we making it unequivocally clear to our handlers that to demonstrate marking ability, a dog must go directly to the area of the fall on it’s own and without aid from the handler and establish a hunt for the bird, pick up the bird, and return to the handler area?  How about control issues such as coming to the line and delivery?  Yes, we are still testing for control at Started, although we expect much less control than at the advanced levels.   

I ran my first dog an HRC test over 20 years ago and I remember it like it was yesterday.  I had never run a retriever test before. The Started mark was thrown and I sent my dog Tess, who was about 18 months old and handling.  She ran to about 10 ft. of the mark, at which point I hit the whistle.  She sat, then took my left over and picked up the bird and brought it to me.  As she came back one of the judges admonished me to “let the dog pick the birds up on it’s own”.  Sorry, nobody explained that to me.  Without a proper explanation of the objectives of a marking test, a green handler would obviously think the point was for the dog to just “get the bird”.    And speaking of understanding and expectations:  Do we have any Started judges with a “just pick up the chickens” and you’re okay mentality?  You tell me.  Do we have Started judges that, despite repeated dropping and mouthing of the bird and coaxing and cajoling and perhaps some verbal intimidation to deliver, say, “you’re okay handler – the dog got it back to you”?  You tell me.   

And probably one of the most misunderstood concepts is the re-cast.  The re-cast is a Started and Seasoned handler’s opportunity to pick up a bird it failed to pick up on the first attempt, which it of course it needs to retrieve to avoid failing.  Do we have judges who are giving these handlers the impression they have two equal chances to demonstrate marking ability on each bird thrown?  When a dog fails to go directly to the AOF on it’s own and establish a hunt on a mark on the first attempt, it should warrant a markdown.  There are some rare exceptions.  For example a dog who is distracted and pulled off it’s mark by say a loud noise, whistle from another test, noise from the gallery, etc. should be given due consideration if it must be re-cast or even re-run.  Much as trainers put good basics in a dog to establish a solid foundation for future work, our Started judges should give beginning handlers a good foundation in how HRC tests the desirable traits of hunting retrievers and exactly what is expected of the dog.  Again, using the Started marking test as an example, when handlers understand exactly what is required of their dog, we have given them a foundation of understanding exactly how they will be judged on marking at every level of testing.   Ditto for control issues. So how would I rate the dog’s performance in our scenario? 

With no discernable distractions present, I would have to conclude that this retriever simply mis-marked the bird.  Remember, it established a hunt well short of the area of the fall.  The dog earns a markdown for lack of marking on this bird, even if it would have handled cleanly to the bird.  If it had no difficulties with the remaining three birds for the day, it passes.  The dog demonstrated some ability to be under control when being handled on the first attempt at the mark by sitting on the whistle.  It came back in when called for the re-cast – so no failure for control issues is warranted for this Started dog.  On the re-cast, if the dog were just randomly meandering around the test site, perhaps going back toward an old fall area, there would be a point we’d have to admit we needed bird boy assistance and the test would be failed.   

I mentioned the new Test Briefings in my last article.   These are on the HRC website and an effort has been made to make them easier to find and print out.  Judges who have used them have reported to me that they were extremely helpful.  Please give them a try at your next test and let me know what you think.  

We hope the “Judge’s Corner” will both entertain and inform you.  

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Last modified: February 18, 2008